XVII century England inherited the richness and complexity of Elizabethan times. Politically and religiously, England experienced dramatic changes during the XVII century. Wars of succession, Religious intolerance, economic crisis, Puritan revolution among others. Death was something natural and recurrent in this century and poets reacted towards this in different ways. John Donne's aesthetic response as it appears in "Death be not Proud" seems to be of quiet acceptance because of his complete belief in the after life, suggesting actually that Death is no more than a transit to real life in God. How has this conception changed through the ages? How do people face Death today? Interview two professors of the English Department and two students and then compare and contrast their opinions and Donne's poem. Make reference to Donne's poem in order to support your point. You are also welcome to make reference to other XVII century poets like John Milton, Andrew Marvell or Robert Herrick. You may also use well developed, deep critical analysis provided by critics and serious scholars about this poem or about XVII century poetry as a whole.
Visit: http://www.luminarium.org/sevenlit/
This is a very good web page that contains the poets' orginal works and also there are also some essays you may browse. There are songs and music from those times as well. Please read the Blogging Rubrics I have uploaded at University Intranet as you will learn there what I expect from this task.
Best wishes,
Visit: http://www.luminarium.org/sevenlit/
This is a very good web page that contains the poets' orginal works and also there are also some essays you may browse. There are songs and music from those times as well. Please read the Blogging Rubrics I have uploaded at University Intranet as you will learn there what I expect from this task.
Best wishes,
Miss Erika
As I write this assignment, i realized that most of the people I interviewed, asking about their personal opinion regarding death, they all agreed in the way that they are not afraid of death itself, but of the ones they are leaving behind.
ReplyDeleteA teacher said that she knew that eventually death was going to come into her life, sooner or later, and that, of course, one is scared of the idea of suffering during "the process", but most of all, she was worried about leaving her children, and leaving them with all the necessary tools to survive into this world.Of course, she didn't wanted to leave them while they were young, but she was more calmed while thinking of leaving them when they were adults, but whatever their ages were, she wanted to leave them with necessary strength to survive.
One of my friends said that as she read the poem,she understood that death can't consider itself as immortal, because she stops existing the minute the person dies and that if she saw that from the religious point of view you have some examples that for catholics, you go to heaven once you are death; and for the Buddhist, where you reincarnate into something or someone else, death is just something instantaneous that does not last forever since the person passes into another state or another way of life. And from her personal point of view,she thinks that we are brought into this world for a simple purpose and once that mission is fulfilled we must go into another state or place and even thought we suffer whenever a loving one dies, we need to keep in mind that he or she is ok, they are in a much better place than ours. she also thinks that death is something we all, in a certain way, fear, but that we need to understand that it is also part of life, it is a part of the circle of life.
And my personal opinion, death is not something to be afraid of, it's something to respect. My biggest fear right now, while thinking of death, is the idea of losing someone I know, because that person leaves and maybe does not realize how much he/she is going to be missed, but the ones that suffer, are the ones who stays here on earth. i don't fear death itself, as it happens to me, what scares me is the ones I'm leaving, my parents, sisters, nieces, nephews and boyfriend and it scares me to think that they might suffer in that way. I'm also afraid of losing someone I love.
I think that the author of the poem might be afraid of death and that's why he is talking to it in a defiant tone.
(ROMINA CÁDIZ C.)
ReplyDeleteThe XVII century was a period in which Methapisical poetry appeared in order to stay for a long time. The poems of that period were very weird and uncommon because their form itself was difficult to understand. The authors of the different poems written in that period used a lot comparisons and images that did not have any relationship with the reality, so that was a huge change in poetry because the poems were used to talk about what people already know in life. Death, which was something unknown in that period and still be unknown nowadays, it was something that was very present in the poems written in that period as well. During that time, death was seen as a normal step in life; even though, it was something uncommon to talk and unknown for people because nobody knew what thing will come after death. However, Death was seen in a very positive step in life because the authors of the different poems written in that time, they pointed out that death was something difficult to face because people will separate from the people who they loved; however, the authors showed that probably after death, people will meet again with their families or their couples because life will still existing after death. That was huge hope for all people who read the poems during that time. Moreover, that way of see death has not changed a lot if we compare they way that people saw death in that time as a comparison with the way that people see it nowadays. According to two teachers of my university, they agreed to the fact that death is an issue that is difficult to face because we do not know exactly what comes after and that makes us feel insecure because human beings like to feel that they can control everything because that makes us feel secure. That is why there are many Scientifics who always are investigating things in order to feel that they can control them. Moreover, my two teachers were disagreed about what comes after death. One of my teachers said that after death there is nothing more and we will become dust as the way that the world was at the beginning of its existence. On the other hand, my other teacher said that after death life continuous as normal, but the only thing that will change is the fact that we will not be living on the earth, we will be living with god in the heaven. My two teachers were also agreed to the fact that what they are scared of, it is the pain that someone can suffer while he or she is dying, and they are also scared of the fact of leaving their children alone in the world. That was something that my two teachers commented in a non positive way because they would like to be with their children forever, especially if their children are little. As a conclusion, the way that people saw death in that period in comparison with the way that people see death nowadays is very similar. Death is seen as a difficult step in life that everybody must face because we leave our family; however, it is a step that will leave us in other world which is heaven where we will meet with our friends and family again.
In England, there were several changes about the ways people were thinking in the Elizabethan period, which is well-known to be the age of the Renaissance. Many new things have appeared. People started to believe in witchcraft, witches, superstitions, ghosts, and a lot of technology, that came up as well as science and inventions. The way English people took the concept of death is quite similar as it is nowadays. Death, as a concept, was something common in this century that has also been influenced by the Catholic Church and its teachings. There are people who think death is a negative fact, and there are others who believe that death is a positive truth. According to Professor Magaña, from the English Department of University of Andrés Bello, said that “death is part of a life cycle.” In addition to this, he pointed out that: “Death has been presented since the known existence and history of mankind, so it was practically inherent to English people too, as it is a normal process of life unless you believe in existentialism, which are endless philosophical thoughts.” If death is a constructive or pessimistic thing, people are not able to tell since nobody has ever come back from death and tell people how it is like. All we know is that death a powerful reality and people cannot do anything about it. Elizabethan poets were also influenced by the concept of death, and it is quite interesting to find that many poems deal with death as well as the intertextuality that can be found within poetry in general. In relation to this point, many poems that are related to death have some connections to biblical facts at the same time. For example, in “Death be not Proud,” the English poet writer John Donne -- who is the major representative of the metaphysical poets -- compares death as the times people have to get some sleep: “From Rest and Sleep, which but thy picture be.” After that, he continues saying: “One short sleep past, we wake eternally, And Death shall be no more: Death, thou shalt die!” There is a feeling that death is less powerful than we think, but from a biblical point of view, makes a lot of sense since death which is considered as a natural reason of our sinful lives. Donne was also a preacher, so he knew that God has said through the bible that death is coming to an end. Moreover, people are not death but sleeping and waiting for judgment day. In addition, in “Paradise Lost” written by John Milton says that "Of Man's first disobedience and the fruit that brought death into the world…” This story can also be found in the first book of the bible, Genesis. Now we have come down to a faith thing that not many people believe. Like a classmate of mine, he does not believe much in God. Thus, he refuses to believe in eternity as well as many other people do. In the end, the conception of death has not changed much through the periods. Every one of us, accept it as a normal instance of life; others may say this that it is part of a life cycle that happens everyday and everywhere. Some people fear death, others just find it amazing. As a result, I would like to believe that there will be life after death and Donne’s poem satisfies my own beliefs. Probably, it did satisfy many other people of that time as well, but until today, the concept of death has remained pretty much the same.
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ReplyDelete(Bárbara Schneider)
ReplyDeleteDo people nowadays think the same way? Is this place called “heaven” so assured at the end? Is faith enough? Things have changed until the point that we actually laugh at death, because people have always feared death, and jokes and laughter are a way of showing that you don’t care anymore, but the truth is that we still do. But things are different in other sense. When people truly believed in God, they had fear of meeting the almighty and powerful God. But now that most people don’t believe in God, the common fear is not godly, it’s atheistic. This doesn’t mean that the fear inside of them has disappeared, because people cannot be afraid of something they don’t believe in. Now, they’re afraid of there being nothing at all; not afraid of going to hell, but of going nowhere at all.
One of the students I had a conversation with said the following:
“I think I agree with the poem, because we need to believe in something… I am not afraid of death itself, but of what will happen when I am gone…”
Most people nowadays still have a belief of life after death even if they don’t believe in God. They’d rather say that “they believe in their own way” but personally I see that the human fear and the catholic society, still pressures us in some way, they make us believe.
To sum up, weather the things have changed or not;… we couldn’t say no, but we couldn’t either give an absolute yes as an answer. The fear towards death has always existed, and even though we keep the power away from it and try to ease our minds and souls, we will forever live with that. The metaphysical aspect, I believe has not changed. There is a very explicit concept of life after death and there has always been. Donne’s poem does make us feel that death is nothing to be scared of, but at the same time, just by writing and trying to look down to his own personification of it, lets us know that fear does exist inside him too.
If something is not really an issue…not really important…
Why write about it?
(1st part)
ReplyDeleteto what was discussed in classes, death in the XVII century is presented as a relevant subject into the daily habits. It is reflected in that way because of the problems by which people were facing at that time—religious crisis and the expansion of new religious beliefs (Puritanism). For that reason, the authors or poets of that period decided to take the concept of “death” as a new subject or brand which was not taken into consideration before—not in a deep manner. As it can be said, “death” is reflected in the poetry that many poets wrote, and they added a special meaning to this concept: “Death is another step in life which helps to pass the barrier into another life or eternity.” (John Donne)
Another important quality is that many poets of that period were interested in writing poems that have a clear connection with death. It is obvious that readers have to analyze the poems extensively because they tended to write with difficult structures, which in some cases can reflect other meanings. Backtracking to the main idea that death was part of many poets in their writing, it can be discovered that many of them follow this pattern. For instance, John Milton in Lycidas reflects his pain because of the death of his friend, and he gave the possibility of a new life that his friend will face (afterlife). Andrew Marvell also expresses his opinion about death in To his Coy Mistress, which at the end assumes that there is another life after death—eternity. And John Donne with his masterpiece Death Be not Proud gives a good example of death that opens a possibility of not be afraid of death; death is another step that everyone has to perceive in order to become part of the eternity. The previous description makes a good illustration regarding the thoughts of the writers in the XVII century.
(2nd part)
ReplyDeleteThere are many symbolisms of death presented in each section of any poem related to death. For example, in Death Be not Proud the poppy illustrates the image or a flower that is associated with a funeral. In Lycidas can be find the words “your season” as a technique of saying that your time in life is over because there are some periods in life that you cannot avoid. In these cases, the symbolisms provided are well demonstrated throughout the poems.
The idea of this discussion is to contrast the points of view presented in the XVII century, with the perspective of the XXI century regarding Death. In order to give an important impression, two teachers or the English Department and two classmates were consulting about this issue. For example, Miss Tamara Álvarez said “ I believe that there is some kind of life after death, but what I’m afraid of is leaving my children alone without the proper tools for their survival”, “I’m not afraid of death because death can be present around the corner.” Another illustration of death is explained by Miss Alejandra Romo: “when I believed in the religious point of view, I was afraid of death because I did not know what will happen next. But now, that I think in a logical fact, I’m not afraid of death because we are the same as other creatures of our life—we born, grow up, and then die. We born by dust, and then we do to the dust again.” “What I am afraid of is leaving my kids not alone but without the mother figure—I believe that we are recompensed by what we do in life, and if you do not behave correctly, you will receive what you deserve”.
(3rd part)
ReplyDeleteIn the interview provided by my classmates (Nicole Urra and Montserrat Hevia), it can be said that they agree on the fact that after death there is nothing else which follows. “We are here in this world, and we have to do as much as we can”, “I’m not that kind of people that believe that after life we have another life, neither that we reincarnate in other beings. This is our life, the one that is happening now, and for that reason we have to enjoy it.”
As it is shown, there are many perceptions about death; each one has validity in terms of our beliefs. However, it can be found a big difference in relation to the point of view that poets in the XVII century had, because in the present century there some people who do not believe in religion, and other people who believe in it. The conception of afterlife has changed because of other factors that have an important relevance. That is the case of children—they form an important part in people’s life, and the other perception regarding death and life is that people prefers to “seeds the day” (Carpe Diem) instead of thinking on what will happen after the death of the body.
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